-------------------------------------------------------------------- NOV-LONG.DOC -- 19980218 -- Email thread on NetWare & Long filenames -------------------------------------------------------------------- Feel free to add or edit this document and then email it back to faq@jelyon.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:05:48 GMT-5 From: "David Pifer" To: netw4-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Long File Names The largest ramification seen is that this is another Name Space on the volume. The way I understand the issue is (and those that know I am wrong will correct me, that's email) that there is a physical limit on the number of files on a volume 2,000,000 you then divide this by the number of name spaces loaded. In our case DOS, MAC and OS/2 this brings the number of files down to 666,666 etc.... We have a netware 4 server with 550,000+ files on a volume already (mostly mail). Also each name space requires more ram, this is were I give up on trying to do this, there is a program that is available with NDSCAN.EXE (I think) called SMEM.EXE that walks you through calculations. Netware 4.1 supports os/2, 3.12 does too, 3.11 does not officially support it but can be patched to do it. --------- Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:21:33 -0400 From: Joe Thompson To: netw4-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Long File Names >The largest ramification seen is that this is another Name Space on >the volume. The way I understand the issue is (and those that know I >am wrong will correct me, that's email) that there is a physical >limit on the number of files on a volume 2,000,000 you then divide >this by the number of name spaces loaded. In our case DOS, MAC and >OS/2 this brings the number of files down to 666,666 etc.... We have >a netware 4 server with 550,000+ files on a volume already (mostly >mail). Also each name space requires more ram, this is were I give >up on trying to do this, there is a program that is available with One extra little thought here...according to novell (and my experience confirms this!) directory entries are dealt out to subdirectories in blocks of 32. So on initial creation of a subdirectory 32 entries are reserved. Once you pass 32 files in that subdirectory another 32 are reserved and so on. I was setting up Lotus Suites and placed the users workstation setup in the users Home directory. basically this consisted of 20 or so directories with 2 or 3 files in each plus a few empty ones for data. After installing 450 users I got the error "Unable to create subdirectory". I had 3 gigs left on the volume, what I hadn't taken into account was that I had NFS name space loaded on this volume. A hard lesson indeed. BTW Netware 4.11 is supposed to finally fix this....it goes up to 16 million. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:24:29 -0500 From: Darwin Collins To: netw4-l@bgu.edu Subject: Re: Long Names of W/95 >>>How are you guys dealing with the Long >>>names, as much as 256 char (I think) that WORD in W/95 allows? >>>Is there a Name Space to load or will one of the existing ones work? >>>For me this is a 3.11, 3.12 as well as 4.1 problem. > >Use the OS2 name space....it will do the trick. With Netware 4.11 (now called, IntraNetWare ??), it is now called LONG name space...supports win95,os2,nt,nfs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:26:05 -0700 From: Shawn Subject: NetWare 3.11 and OS/2 Name Space :) Well, I finally got the long name space to work on our 3.11 server. For those of you who are also trying to do it, here's what I did: 1) Download and installed LIBUPB --install the files in SYS:SYSTEM and let it overwrite the older files - after backing up or renaming the old ones 2) Download NAM312 and extract --Copy OS2.NAM to SYS:SYSTEM and c:\server.311 (the server.311 part can also be done in step 3 below) 3) Downloaded and installed 311ptg --extract the contents to a floppy disk --at the server console, type LOAD A:\PATCH311 and select the option to install the patches. It will then load all of the NLMs in your server directory, eg: c:\SERVER.311 --Down the server --xcopy a:\native\loader\*.* c:\server.311 --from server.311, type XLOAD LOADER.EXE SERVER.EXE --xcopy OS2.NAM to c:\server.311 (if this wasn't done in step 2) --SERVER 3) At this point, I already had the name space added to the volume, so I didn't have to do it. But, if you haven't, at the console prompt, type: LOAD OS2. After that, type ADD NAME SPACE OS2 to . Add LOAD OS2 to Startup.ncf. After all this, it still didn't work. So, I had to do the following (after researching a little): 4) Launch Regedit. Go to: Hkey_Local_Machine\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\VxD\Nwredir Then, Edit-->New-->Binary Value (_not_ DWORD, which is why POLEDIT doesn't work) Name the key SupportLFN. Modify the value to 2 (type 02). 5) Edit System.ini, ie: add the following [Nwredir] SupportLFN=2 6) Save System.ini and reboot. Voila! :) You can check out the online sources I used to figure this out through the "Windows 95 and NetWare Issues" section of my Networking Page (URL in my sig). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:03:28 -0600 From: Joe Doupnik Subject: Re: Win95 Long Name Support on Novell 4.1 >> load os2.nam > >Think you forgot to ADD the NAME SPACE support TO a VOLUME(s), in the >AUTOEXEC.NCF. -------- Close, but no cigar. ADD NAME SPACE is stated once, only one time, at the console prompt or equivalent. It writes stuff on the volume. Command VOLUME shows what's written on which volumes. NW 4.10 and earlier need to LOAD namespace.NAM in startup.ncf. NW 4.11 folks find that NW now does that automatically. Do it after loading the disk driver(s); i.e., at the end of startup.ncf. INW 4.11 folks also know, because they bothered to read the documentation, that OS2.NAM has been subsumed by LONG.NAM. Joe D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:19:01 -0600 From: Joe Doupnik Subject: Re: 3.12 long file name/namespace >You need to add the OS2 name space. Make sure the latest copy of >OS2.NAM in the same directory as SERVER.EXE. > >Don't waste your time, just add the name space and carry on as >usual. In fact, you can add the name space while users are still >logged in, and they won't notice anything. Clients who need long >filename access won't see it until the next time they login. > >Novell NetWare keeps two copies of the FAT in RAM as part of its >advanced (ahead-of-its-time) caching system, so performance won't be >effected. > >You don't need to recreate your volumes to perform this >operation. You should have a regular backup system in place to >protect yourself against hardware failures or a natural disaster. If >you have reliable tape backup software, your backup will remain >intact. > >Adding the name space will consume some disk space, and the server >will tell you how much. The server needs to store the long filename >entires on the disk. The amount of disk space required is minimal. --------- Yes, but... The "but" is the directory layout is now rather spread out with regular and long names not next to each other. If you add another namespace I suggest rebuilding the volume from tape backups so namespace info is contiguous for each file. Find a convenient day for the rebuild. It will also defrag the volume and recover lots of no longer used directory entries, rather like running Norton's Utilities across it. Long filenames don't consume memory as such, but consume directory slots in the 32 entry disk cache buffers. More name space in the same number of buffers means caching fewer files. To cache the same number of files do the simple arithmetic and adjust the directory cache buffers accordingly. For NW 3 folks consider increasing the disk block allocation unit from 4KB to a slightly larger value. This uses more space for tag ends of files and increases disk throughput via fewer system calls to move the same data. Benefits are weighted by the distribution of file lengths on the volume, so look at your volume to make the best decision. I've moved from 4KB to 8KB on 8GB of material, NW 3.12, tens of thousands of files, and have been pleased. Joe D. --------- Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:00:40 +0000 From: Randy Richardson Subject: Re: 3.12 long file name/namespace > Yes, but... > Joe D. I hadn't thought of enlarging the disk blocks, and in this case, the backup-recreate-restore option is the most suitable. As far as defragmentation goes, I remember someone asking about a disk defragger for NetWare, and the response was something like "NetWare's elevator seeking (or caching) algorithms work better when the disk is fragmented." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:12:08 -0500 From: CHENGD1 Subject: Re: NDIR question >Can anyone tell me what the small "o" between the file name and file >size in an Ndir file listing means. I have looked at compression and >attributes but can see no reason for this character to show up on >some files and not on others. > >Files Size Last Update Owner >----------------- ------------- --------------- ---------- >ASYS.TXT o 22,200 12-31-97 12:47p SUTEETS >ATM.INI 565 10-25-96 1:31p SUTEETS That means the file has a long file name. Enter NDIR /LONG to see the long names. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:31:10 +1300 From: "Baird, John" Subject: Re: NDIR question >That means the file has a long file name. Enter NDIR /LONG to see the >long names. Actually, it means that the file was created in the OS/2 name space which is now known as the LONG name space. Similarly, files created by a Mac will be displayed with 'm' to indicate that they are Mac files. Using NDIR /long displays the file/directory names in the LONG (OS/2) name space. All files and directories will have names in this name space when it is loaded on the host volume, but only when the file/directory was created in the LONG (OS/2) name space is the long name likely to differ from the DOS name. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:22:55 +1300 From: "Baird, John" Subject: Re: FYI: Limitation of copying 4.11 partitions with ARCserv >I think I'm missing a concept here. How are files "owned by" a name >space? Every file and directory is "owned" by a name space and this is the name space in which the file was created. You can identify the owning name space using NDIR. It will display 'o' after the file or dir name for long (os/2) entries, 'm' for Mac files and 'u' for NFS files. The primary function that comes to mind for the owning name space is to determine how the file should be copied e.g. if the owning name space is "Mac" then the file may have a resource fork, and there may be finder information in its Mac directory entry to be transferred. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:48:04 -0800 From: Randy Richardson Subject: Re: Directories with Long File Names >A colleague of mine informed me that in the Windows NT 4 OS, NT actually >breaks up a 'Long Name' directory name into 11 character sections, each >section taking up a single Directory Entry in the NT Operating System. >These separate directory entries are not viewable from the >user/administrator but do subtract/use directory entries from the >operating system. This of course can cause you to use up your directory >entries faster than you would think. I guess this is why it's suggested >that with NT you do not have Long Named directories off of the root - >which helps reduce the risk of using up your directory entries. This method is used to maintain downward compatibility with older versions of DOS that only support the 8.3 filename format. As long as you don't use older versions of ScanDisk, Defrag, or equivilant 3rd-party disk management utilities that don't support long filenames, your long names will stay intact. If you did use one of these older utilities, the extra entries would be recognized as invalid, and only the short 8.3 names would survive leaving the file contents in tact. The first entry is the 8.3 filename, and the following entires (which are invalid in older versions of DOS) make up the long filename. >Does anyone know if Netware uses the same methodology with Long Named >directories on their volumes? NetWare doesn't use the same method. Instead, it allocates separate entires on the disk for each long filename. This is why Novell OSes can support multiple name spaces (Long Names, NFS, Mac, etc.) on one volume, and still retain the DOS 8.3 (default) filenames without any problems. This is a result of careful long-term planning. You can use the "NDIR /LONG" command at the DOS prompt to view all the variations of filenames on a volume that supports multiple name spaces. The reason Long Names (formerly OS2 name space), NFS, and Mac, etc., are differentiated is to support the different standards for filenames (Long Names rejects a "/" while Mac accepts it) and trustee assignment communications (NFS in particular). In the case where a character in a filename is invalid for other name spaces, the .NAM modules make a conversion so valid filenames will appear for the other operating systems. ------------------------------